Curse

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Oct 09, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Alright, for those of you that say 6v6 cuts down on gimmicks, a lesson in math: with a six player HA, we have 6 slots to fill, and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. With 8v8, we have 8 slots to fill and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. DO THE MATH, less diversity in 6v6. And with nightfall coming out, and 10 proffs to squeeze into 6 slots... oh my god...

Boofhead · Oct 09, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

10 profs to squeeze into 6 slots... maybe they won't all be n/mo or r/w?

dgb · Oct 09, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Alright, for those of you that say 6v6 cuts down on gimmicks, a lesson in math: with a six player HA, we have 6 slots to fill, and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. With 8v8, we have 8 slots to fill and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. DO THE MATH, less diversity in 6v6. And with nightfall coming out, and 10 proffs to squeeze into 6 slots... oh my god...

This has all the logic of the following statement.

OH NOESS!!! IF YOU MULTIPLY TEH 4 BY 3 AND THEN DIVIDE THE ANSWER BY 2 ADD TEN AND TAKE THE SQUARE ROOT (interjection - I know something more complex than +-*/ might trouble a few people) AND MULTIPLY BY 2 THEN DIVIDE BY THE REMAINING CLASSES YOU GET TEH END OF GUILDWARZZZ AS WE KNOW IT OH NOES MY FAMES!!!111!!!oneoneoneone!!!111!1!!forty-two4242424224242ONEONEONEOHNOESMYFAMES!!!!11!! pipie!!!111!!!!naturallogarithimof364!!!!!

ie. it's utter nonsense. Diversity (under certain conditions that are met within Guild Wars, ie. number of classes > 1) isn't a function of number of classes or slots, it's a function of how well balanced the metagame for that gametype is. It is entirely possible, even likely that you have more diversity in 6v6. Where previously you had the case that if you devoted your entire team to somethign you could utterly overload a teams defences against that, now your team is smaller such that you can't overload a specific defence and teams take more general and flexible defences such that you can't lock out a single character or skill to win.

EDIT: Needs more ones, doesn't sufficiently convey the banality of the previous statement.

Cunning · Oct 09, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Alright, for those of you that say 6v6 cuts down on gimmicks, a lesson in math: with a six player HA, we have 6 slots to fill, and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. With 8v8, we have 8 slots to fill and 8 professions to do this, with repetitive professions allowed. DO THE MATH, less diversity in 6v6. And with nightfall coming out, and 10 proffs to squeeze into 6 slots... oh my god...

Actually, all this means is that each particular team will have less available skills, it has nothing to do with the variety of builds that will be possible.

For example how many 8 man builds do you know that go like this:
1 Mesmer
1 Warrior
1 Ranger
1 Necromancer
1 Monk
1 Elementalist
1 Ritualist
1 Assassin

The fact is that the number of slots doesn't affect the number of possibilities, there's just as much variety as there ever was, maybe you'll realise this when you play.

Thom · Oct 09, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

People are missing what makes a good game type. According to Anets standards, I good gametype is one that:
1) keeps a consistant audience
2) works well with the game system
3) provides a unique experience of the game system

A bad game type is one that expends significantly disproportionate funds for the user base.

1) Tombs has been strinking since it was no longer called Tombs. TA on the other hand has grown over the same time period.

2) The pacing in HA is totally different, which makes skill adjustment difficult. HA has fewer environmentally important objectives (fewer control points, flag running...), so more skills can be placed on each objective. This really changes up your pace and balance objectives (giving us HA skills and GvG skills). If you move the pace closer by dropping the total number of skills, you actually increase the number of skills well balanced for both environments.

3)This is not saying we should make objectives similar to GvG. HA must have a distinct "feel". You can have the same feel while getting changing up the pace. Shortening game length on altar maps, allows for a quicker pace with the same style of game play rewarding a slightly different skill balance.

I wish we had actual new maps. I wish old Tombs people would give this a shot. Regardless, Anet needed to make this change as a long term strategy to make a more integrated vibrant HA. It is a rough change, but if you set your mind to it you can get most of your old builds with a slightly different feel, while also having room for gvg style builds.

The Silver Star · Oct 09, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Well so far in 6vs6 everything i see is mainly dual smite and condition builds... just the same thing over and over agian its getting a little repetative :|

My Roflcopter Flies · Oct 09, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Well so far in 6vs6 everything i see is mainly dual smite and condition builds... just the same thing over and over agian its getting a little repetative :|

AGREED 100%. I mean like every single run ull see a dual smite or a ViMWAY and then ull see the ocasional spikes(blood, r), and you'll never see that change unless you/they are creative. The population of ID1 has shrunk by a lot......... And u see ViMWAY LF 1 IWAY WAR 2 VIMS, R4+ VIMWAY LF blah blah blah......R6 Dual smite LF Smiter......Forming R6+ Blood spike need N/R 4 N/Mo....... T_________T

dgb · Oct 09, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

Well so far in 6vs6 everything i see is mainly dual smite and condition builds... just the same thing over and over agian its getting a little repetative :|

Three days later... Three bloody days later. How long after HA was first introduced did IWAY take over? Blood Spike?

Months? Years? Yet you're expecting radical new builds in three days? Amazing.

Minus Sign · Oct 09, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Nonsense

The map changes, from what I have noticed seem very annoying. It looks like ANET has made it very easy to skip to halls but hard to get to halls.

Actually I've found the reverse ture. It seems like my guilds attempts to skip to halls end in the UW. This may have somthing to do with the hours we play at, however. Most HoH runs for me have started at UW and gone up from there. Sometimes we get a skip somewhere in the middle, like skipping to unholy temple or bypassing courtyard, but most runs have see the bulk of the maps.

I don't believe (and never really did) that the 6v6 change was an attempt by Anet to address unbalanced builds in HA; I just dont think they're that dumb. I think that it was just to puff up the number of teams playing at the same time, reducing hall skips. 48 players split 6 ways makes for more groups fighting to halls than 48 players split 8 ways. Classic case of quanitity over quality.

But by your statement, they failed at that too...

phasola · Oct 09, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Skipping is a lot more common than before, i've never had a full run, heck i've never even seen the last map 6 v 6 wise...

scamPOR · Oct 09, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Strange we just played every map but sacred... like 10 mins ago.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 09, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

That's impressive considering you're playing in the dead hour.

However, Even though I was excited about 6 man HA, turns out (as others have previously said) almost every team is conditions or smite. Turns out surprisingly that balanced can do very well (I think DSF was running a warrior, two eles, some monks, and maybe a ranger?) but basically it's same old same old. I still see blood spike, Vim is the new Iway, etc.

However, the first altar map is so much fun now. Teams can skip there, meaning you can face some really trashy teams. Additionally politics come into play, and To be perfectly honest I forget that courtyard is only 4 minutes, giving me like 6 less minutes to dance on the altar.

It's certainly interesting, and fun at times, and I'll continue to go there until I have a tiger, but I don't see myself wanting to join an exclusive HA guild or anything anytime soon.

The Silver Star · Oct 09, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Three days later... Three bloody days later. How long after HA was first introduced did IWAY take over? Blood Spike?

Months? Years? Yet you're expecting radical new builds in three days? Amazing.

I did not say i was expecting radical new builds in three days, however you rarely see a basic balanced team. Sounds to me like you play these builds aswell or are a iwayer.

Zui · Oct 09, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

I did not say i was expecting radical new builds in three days, however you rarely see a basic balanced team. Sounds to me like you play these builds aswell or are a iwayer.

Many "condition builds" and 'smite builds' would fall under the category of balanced builds. You're defining balanced far too narrowly. There's balanced, gimmicks, and spikes. Most spikes either fall under gimmicks(Blood spike, ob flame spike...), or balanced(adrenal spike).

The Silver Star · Oct 09, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Many "condition builds" and 'smite builds' would fall under the category of balanced builds. You're defining balanced far too narrowly. There's balanced, gimmicks, and spikes. Most spikes either fall under gimmicks(Blood spike, ob flame spike...), or balanced(adrenal spike).

I just would like to see a wider variety of balanced builds, if you have been playing HA since the change to 6v6 you would agree that the majority of builds are dual smite or condition builds... the majority being 90% or so.

Zui · Oct 09, 2006, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

I just would like to see a wider variety of balanced builds, if you have been playing HA since the change to 6v6 you would agree that the majority of builds are dual smite or condition builds... the majority being 90% or so.

I never said that wasn't the case. Infact, from what I've seen that's fairly correct, give or take 10-30%...

However, you can't claim all of those builds are not balanced. Because alot of them are.

raider2505 · Oct 09, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

How can you expect more variety of builds when the big majority of HA population is R0-R3-R6..Seems more easy for them to fame farm with a dual smite, vim or whateva...is easy for them to make party-just jump into ID1-ID2 and there you go.... you found group.
I think this kind of mentality will never die in HA, even if more profession will be introduced, especialy for those that hunt a "deer" or want to meet a "wolf" into the wood.
The thing is that "they" (refering to the gimmick build players) want fast fame climbing; so they don't bother their brains for a brand new build. There are not such kind of ppl when comes to earning a shinny "Deer" or "Coyotee".
So peace to them, let'em evolve (when? into what? these are the questions). Until then let free fame flow.

Boofhead · Oct 09, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Silver Star

however you rarely see a basic balanced team.

so... nothing's changed?

Kabale · Oct 09, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

My only complaint lies with Broken Tower and Courtyard... Running around with a high rank really does put the bullseye right over your team, even when you're NOT holding let alone nowhere NEAR altar. Do I really have to PUG everytime I want to avoid getting ganked?? Want me and guildies to leave the guild and get reinvited everytime we wanna go Tomb??

Sure I'll miss 8vs8, I like the 6vs6 too, but not the 6vs6vs6 when it's not Halls.

It basically goes like this:

-"well-known" team doesn't cap - wants to do cap game
-"not-so-well-known" team caps
-"noob team" gets convinced by "not-so-well-known" team to attack us, because we are zomg high rank
-gank.

The Silver Star · Oct 09, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Yes i know what you mean if you playing as a guild team thats well knows or high ranked on a 3 way match.. usually if there is eg one other pug r6+ or w/e and a unranked pug.. when the r6+ makes there move the unraked do usually follow what they do and gank the higher ranked team. Or both teams simply think.. lets gank that guild they must be good get them out of way them go for the other team... its sad really but there probably doing the right thing if i was in there position.